Agency Collective Tales

Pete Heslop @ Steadfast Collective

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Agency Collective Tales, Ellie spoke to Pete Heslop, founder and Managing Director of Steadfast Collective about leaving the agency he helped to co-found to start a new agency rooted in his passion for digital products, being able to holiday & live the life he wants and how his love of all things community shaped Steadfast Collective. Pete Heslop is Managing Director at Steadfast Collective, his passion is working with smart creatives to craft digital applications that bring people together.

Episode Transcription

00:00:00:11 - 00:00:10:46

Narrator

Welcome to the Agency Collective Tales with Ellie Hale: Our podcast

where we talk to our brilliant agency owners, about all things agency

life.

00:00:10:97 - 00:00:17:34

ELLIE

Today I am joined on the podcast by Pete Heslop from The Steadfast

Collective. Thank you so much for joining us.

00:00:17:58 - 00:00:18:42

PETE

It's great to be here.

00:00:18:78 - 00:00:29:34

ELLIE

Yeah, on the podcast at last! So first off, Pete, can you just tell me

how you got into the agency game? How did it start off? Because this

isn't your first go, is it?

00:00:29:62 - 00:00:53:64

PETE

No. So in 2012 I started as an agency with two friends, Joe Perkins, who

is part of Agency Collective and Matt Luke, and I've known Matt ever

since I was a child and I met Joe through Matt and essentially we tried

to launch an iPhone app, it kind of failed and essentially we realised

that between us we had design, development and marketing skills and

perhaps we should just build an agency.

00:00:53:83 - 00:01:11:63

PETE

That's what we did, we built BriteByte up to become a good size agency.

We grew that. Joe and Matt, really good friends and then essentially I

got married, Joe and Matt were my best men, and ushers at my wedding and

then I was sat in my new house with my wife and I was washing up one day

and I went: "I don't think this is for me anymore."

00:01:11:87 - 00:01:30:15

PETE

So I thought about it and then it all happened very quickly. I sat down

with Matt and Joe and had the little break-up talk and I said: "Look,

this isn't working for me. Design agency isn't quite for me. I need some

more space." So I stepped back and Britebyte is now thriving under Joe's

leadership. It's now rebranded as Chaptr, and they're doing amazing work

over there.

00:01:30:58 - 00:01:66:80

PETE

I started Steadfast Collective pretty much instantly, picked up a few

freelance clients and ran from there.

00:01:37:70 - 00:01:39:51

ELLIE

You were the Robbie Williams of the group?

00:01:39:86 - 00:01:44:97

PETE

Yep. But Chaptr is doing better now than it's ever been, so I think

it was probably good for the group.

00:01:45:65 - 00:01:50:26

ELLIE

[LAUGHS] What was it that you wanted that you weren't getting from

your previous agency?

00:01:50:59 - 00:02:11:16

PETE

I think for me, my passion was digital products. I really was

passionate about building the sorts of things we were seeing coming

out of Silicon Valley and the states and I remember one day being in

the agency at Britebyte with Joe and Matt, and we won this amazing

London client and it was design work. And I remember thinking: "I

just don't care. I don't care about design work."

00:02:11:17 - 00:02:23:46

PETE

It wasn't doing it for me, and my passion was really about more

backend development rather than front end. And that's ultimately

what I was doing before I started an agency - I was a back end

developer, and that's where my passions lay and so I wanted to focus

on that.

00:02:24:42 - 00:02:33:04

ELLIE

And so what was it like starting again, having built it up but also

having had a couple of co-founders around you, to it just being you?

How was that transition?

00:02:33:43 - 00:02:51:62

PETE

Yeah, it was really tough. Matt is one of the most talented

designers I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Joe is

incredibly smart, so I went from having those kind of two cofounders

to going solo. And then very quickly my wife joined me on

the business. That's when we transformed from being Steadfast

Digital to Steadfast Collective was when she joined and we started

hiring.

00:02:51:86 - 00:03:09:96

PETE

It was incredibly daunting, but I was fortunate enough that I had a

good network around me of other agency owners. I had a vision of

where we wanted to go and I was quite fixed on that. Ultimately, I

wasn't running everything at Britebyte. So then from going to then

running everything at Steadfast was the big jump, but it was

something that I relished and I enjoyed the challenge of.

00:03:10:64 - 00:03:14:93

ELLIE

What was the vision and how close are you to that vision now?

00:03:15:66 - 00:03:39:86

PETE

The original aim of Steadfast Collective was to build an agency that

was small and profitable, and we could take the profits and go and

build IP so we could go to other SAS apps that would eventually make

recurring revenue. That was the plan. It was similar to what Ustwo

did with Mills and Sinx. They had the agency and they had the games

on the side, and then ultimately the games ended up being a massive

part of their business.

00:03:40:32 - 00:04:00:86

PETE

So for me, that's something that I really wanted to do, something I

was really passionate about. And so we focussed on from day one and

we still focussed on 20% of our team's time is focussed on building

out those SAS products, those internal things that ultimately

hopefully become a major part of our revenue stream. The only thing

that's changed for us is that focus on community.

00:04:00:93 - 00:04:16:09

PETE

So over the last couple of years the focus has really shifted to

being we really want to work with people who are focussed on

community and are passionate about that as what they do and we want

to work with those folks. That's been the main change for us over

the last seven, eight years.

00:04:16:77 - 00:04:27:35

ELLIE

So where did that niche come from? The working with communities, had

you had a couple of clients and thought this is the way to go? Was

it that you really enjoyed the passion that lies with community?

What is it about communities that appeal?

00:04:28:11 - 00:04:47:54

PETE

We had just gotten through the first year the pandemic, which hit us

really hard as an agency. As soon as Boris opened his mouth and

mentioned the word lockdown, we had other partners calling us and

just pausing projects, cancelling retainers, all of those good

things. It took a massive toll on mine and the team's mental health,

and it's probably something we don't talk about

00:04:47:54 - 00:05:09:04

PETE

enough as a team, but we all got incredibly burnt out. We picked up

probably too many clients, so we were fortunate. We did pick up new

clients during that early bit of the pandemic, but their deadlines

were unbelievably short and we were picking up clients we probably

shouldn't have done just because we thought that's how we're going

to survive. I found myself incredibly unwell: I couldn't open my

inbox, I couldn't wake up without feeling nauseous.

00:05:09:06 - 00:05:30:41

PETE

It was a really tough period, and eventually through family, through

my colleagues and through a fair chunk of counselling and therapy, I

got back to normal but we got to the end of that year, me and my

wife and the management team sat down and we said: "Let's not do

this again. What do we really want from this business?" And that was

the first time we decided this isn't an agency just for the sake of

being an agency.

00:05:30:70 - 00:05:50:31

PETE

This is a lifestyle business and in the agency world, that's almost

a dirty thing to say. The agency is there to serve me and my family,

our team and our clients, and then any overflow from that we want to

funnel into local community projects. That's kind of our map. I drew

this really sketchy circle diagram of how I was going to explain it

to the team.

00:05:50:42 - 00:06:08:92

PETE

We were like: "We should get a designer to redesign it." And we just

stuck with my sketchy iPad drawing. When we said that out loud and

we were like: "OK, what clients do we really love working with?" And

it was the ones that were leading communities. Quite often, they

were female founders who more often than not left their high flying

London jobs during their maternity leave.

00:06:09:09 - 00:06:25:16

PETE

This is a correlation through so many of our clients: Started a

business, it took off during their mat. leave. They stuck with it.

They built communities around what they were doing, and we were

like: "These are the people, these are our people. These are the

ones we love working with and these are the ones we're delivering so

much value to."

00:06:25:70 - 00:06:35:40

PETE

So they're the ones we went after. And that community of smart,

creative folks who are high flying in their jobs but have decided to

start out on their own. That's our crew.

00:06:36:22 - 00:06:37:79

ELLIE

Isn't it amazing when you find your people?

00:06:98:12 - 00:06:48:39

PETE

It really helped us focus. I think it brought a lot of stability to

the team because they understood what was going on. It brought a lot

of stability to me, a new business because I knew who we were

talking to. It's very reassuring.

00:06:49:12 - 00:06:56:03

ELLIE

So since you made that decision and thought: "Sod it, this is who we

want to work with, this is who we are." How has the business

developed since then?

00:06:56:88 - 00:07:17:95

PETE

We have grown. We have hired, we've had, like all agencies, highs

and lows. Since we made that decision, we've had our record month

for sales, for turnover, same with quarter. And we are now at a

place of stability and clarity. So we know where we're going. We

know how we can get there. We have the runway to do it.

00:07:18:40 - 00:07:31:52

PETE

I think the next step is how do we build out that community further

to better serve those people? So it's given us the confidence to

really make big steps into that decision. I go all in and I think

that's carried us quite far.

00:07:32:53 - 00:07:34:83

ELLIE

And have started your own community.

00:07:35:47 - 00:07:58:23

PETE

So we launched Summit because I think we've been working on for a

little while now. And essentially Summit is a space for unexpected

entrepreneurs to come together and learn because what we were

finding was folk that are building these incredible communities are

so good at what they do, whether it's cross stitch, whether it's a

community of solicitors, whatever it is, they're so good at that

thing.

00:07:58:63 - 00:08:15:89

PETE

But what they sometimes lack is those digital skills to approach an

agency. So Summit was designed originally as a video series, and

then we expanded out to a whole community hub, which we're launching

later this year, and we want to just help those people make good

decisions. Like: "Here's the six red flags you should know about

when you're appointing an agency.

00:08:16:28 - 00:08:33:31

PETE

If they're asking for like a 90% deposit, maybe that's a red flag.

If they're not going to give you a contract, red flag." And we're

just trying to help people make those decisions. If they've never

done it before, because working in the digital world, if everything

you do is normally tactile and tangible, which often is in

communities, can be really daunting.

00:08:33:31 - 00:08:46:85

PETE

So we wanted to build out these guides and build that community. And

for us, the next step would be starting to run in-person events,

those sorts of things. But it's a little out of my comfort zone.

It's quite daunting. I've never been a community manager, so it's

quite different to my normal day to day.

00:08:47:76 - 00:08:55:57

ELLIE

I'm here for any tips, mate. So what do you think has really helped

you on your agency you found a journey.

00:08:56:24 - 00:09:29:86

PETE

I have been completely shameless in asking people for help, so we

are fortunate in Southampton, which is where I'm from. There is a

really good network of agencies down here, large and small, along

with I've got some really good agency friends who I met through The

Agency Collective, whether that's network agencies or small

independents like us. And I will pester them and I will ask them

questions and I will book in regular time with them because they've

been there, they've done that and being able just to understand:

"Oh, okay, I've got this pretty scary letter just come through the

post."

00:09:30:09 - 00:09:49:82

PETE

"It doesn't matter. We get them all the time." "When should we think

about moving from our local accountant to a proper firm?" All of

those decisions. There's that classic thing in the agency world,

which is feast or famine. You have real highs and lows and knowing

that the next sale will come at some point is really reassuring to

someone who is still fairly young in agency world.

00:09:50:71 - 00:09:55:69

ELLIE

What is next for you guys? What are you looking at for the future,

for the next couple of years for you guys?

00:09:56:28 - 00:10:17:44

PETE

I think for us we are making strides to becoming more autonomous and

more profitable and hopefully those things go hand in hand. So for

the first time this year since the business started, I took a

holiday where I didn't take my laptop. That was a massive step for

us. We've hired a great ops manager who handles everything clientside,

everything post contract being signed is his responsibility.

00:10:17:72 - 00:10:45:30

PETE

That was a big step. And we're remote anyway as a team. Being able

to step further and further back from the business is feeling really

good and it's feeling like we're heading towards something which is

sustainable rather than being relient on myself and Rachel, which is

really good. And that leads onto: The more profitable we can be as

an agency, the more efficient we can be, the more focus we can put

on Summit and the other ventures we're trying to launch, which will

ultimately then turn into recurring revenue, which will then

eventually turn into us having less pressure on the agency side.

00:10:45:87 - 00:11:02:37

PETE

I don't imagine running an agency into retirement. I imagine running

a software business: A mix of agency and that recurring revenue. So

for us it's how do we get that blend just so there's not all of our

eggs in one basket and there's less pressure on the entire business.

So that's some of our next steps.

00:11:03:85 - 00:11:13:92

ELLIE

I think that's really savvy. What was it that you had put in place

that allowed you to finally take a proper holiday? Is it something

that agency founders really struggle with: That switching off.

00:11:14:61 - 00:11:29:89

PETE

We put in better processes, so that I wasn't the bottleneck. I'm

only the bottleneck now for a couple of things, and it's generally

new business and I was chatting to Matt from Platypus, recently.

He's taken a sabbatical over summer, which is just incredible. And

he was like: "I put the processes in place that anybody can do what

they need to do.

00:11:30:13 - 00:11:47:54

PETE

And the business should carry on when I'm not there." And that

really inspired me. We've got to make better strides towards: "OK,

well, if our technical director isn't there, what happens? Can the

world still move on?" We just really put an emphasis on putting

those autonomous processes in place so everyone has the ability to

pretty much do anything.

00:11:49:10 - 00:11:55:48

ELLIE

What is it that you are most excited about? Is there a project that

you are feeling all tingly and excited to get on with?

00:11:56:06 - 00:12:05:19

PETE

So we are currently working a lot with the National Caravan Council

so I know more about motorhomes, motor vehicles and anything in the

leisure vehicle sector than I should do.

00:12:05:33 - 00:12:06:86

ELLIE

[CHUCKLES] Does it make you want to get one?

00:12:07:39 - 00:12:31:34

PETE

Oh, I would love a camper van. That would be lovely. We are doing

some really great work for them on their internal tooling, but also

their public facing stuff. That's such a great sweet spot for us

because they're literally the UK's trade body for leisure vehicles

they represent that community vibe so much. We are excited that they

are slightly larger organisation that we then get to do more

experimental and more ambitious projects with.

00:12:31:55 - 00:12:46:37

PETE

So that's a beautiful project that we get to work on. We're working

on a few of them and that's probably our highest traffic platform

that we work on. So of all the projects we work on, it has the most

money flowing through it and it probably has the most users using

it. So it's a nice one to work on.

00:12:46:67 - 00:12:53:53

PETE

The team loved seeing the direct impact of when it went live - they

instantly saw improvements on what was happening before, so that was

a really fun one.

00:12:54:32 - 00:13:02:16

ELLIE

Well, that sounds amazing. Just to finish up Pete, what would be

your number one bit of advice that you would pass on to other agency

owners?

00:13:02:87 - 00:13:23:05

PETE

If you are a creative or a technical and you want to keep doing

that, find somebody else to do the other stuff. If you want to run

the agency, eventually you're going to have to drop being a creative

or being a technical person. I don't think you can grow your agency

to be super sustainable, while being on production, while working

day to day on the projects.

00:13:23:05 - 00:13:39:52

PETE

You can when you're small, you have to when you're small, but as you

grow? And if you are super passionate like: "I want to be working on

creative stuff every day." That's great. Become the creative person

and hire someone else to run the day to day. Hire an MD, let them

worry about cash flow and forecasting and talking to solicitors

because they will love that.

00:13:39:62 - 00:13:58:35

PETE

But if that's not your jam, then you focus on your thing. And I just

think they're very separate roles and quite often I see lots of

small agency owners and I feel like they're drowning because they've

never managed to step out of the day to day production of what

they're doing. It's really limiting for them because they just don't

have enough hours in the day to get that stuff done and recruit,

talk to their accountants and all that stuff.

00:13:58:39 - 00:13:59:73

PETE

So that would be my advice.

00:14:00:12 - 00:14:03:34

ELLIE

That's bloody great advice, Pete! Thanks so much. You've been

wonderful.

00:14:04:08 - 00:14:05:59

PETE

Thanks, Ellie. Lovely to chat to you.

00:14:06:44 - 00:14:16:91

Narrator

Thanks so much for listening. Please don't forget to

subscribe. Stay in touch. And if you like what you hear.00:00:00:11 - 00:00:10:46

Narrator

Welcome to the Agency Collective Tales with Ellie Hale: Our podcast

where we talk to our brilliant agency owners, about all things agency

life.

00:00:10:97 - 00:00:17:34

ELLIE

Today I am joined on the podcast by Pete Heslop from The Steadfast

Collective. Thank you so much for joining us.

00:00:17:58 - 00:00:18:42

PETE

It's great to be here.

00:00:18:78 - 00:00:29:34

ELLIE

Yeah, on the podcast at last! So first off, Pete, can you just tell me

how you got into the agency game? How did it start off? Because this

isn't your first go, is it?

00:00:29:62 - 00:00:53:64

PETE

No. So in 2012 I started as an agency with two friends, Joe Perkins, who

is part of Agency Collective and Matt Luke, and I've known Matt ever

since I was a child and I met Joe through Matt and essentially we tried

to launch an iPhone app, it kind of failed and essentially we realised

that between us we had design, development and marketing skills and

perhaps we should just build an agency.

00:00:53:83 - 00:01:11:63

PETE

That's what we did, we built BriteByte up to become a good size agency.

We grew that. Joe and Matt, really good friends and then essentially I

got married, Joe and Matt were my best men, and ushers at my wedding and

then I was sat in my new house with my wife and I was washing up one day

and I went: "I don't think this is for me anymore."

00:01:11:87 - 00:01:30:15

PETE

So I thought about it and then it all happened very quickly. I sat down

with Matt and Joe and had the little break-up talk and I said: "Look,

this isn't working for me. Design agency isn't quite for me. I need some

more space." So I stepped back and Britebyte is now thriving under Joe's

leadership. It's now rebranded as Chaptr, and they're doing amazing work

over there.

00:01:30:58 - 00:01:66:80

PETE

I started Steadfast Collective pretty much instantly, picked up a few

freelance clients and ran from there.

00:01:37:70 - 00:01:39:51

ELLIE

You were the Robbie Williams of the group?

00:01:39:86 - 00:01:44:97

PETE

Yep. But Chaptr is doing better now than it's ever been, so I think

it was probably good for the group.

00:01:45:65 - 00:01:50:26

ELLIE

[LAUGHS] What was it that you wanted that you weren't getting from

your previous agency?

00:01:50:59 - 00:02:11:16

PETE

I think for me, my passion was digital products. I really was

passionate about building the sorts of things we were seeing coming

out of Silicon Valley and the states and I remember one day being in

the agency at Britebyte with Joe and Matt, and we won this amazing

London client and it was design work. And I remember thinking: "I

just don't care. I don't care about design work."

00:02:11:17 - 00:02:23:46

PETE

It wasn't doing it for me, and my passion was really about more

backend development rather than front end. And that's ultimately

what I was doing before I started an agency - I was a back end

developer, and that's where my passions lay and so I wanted to focus

on that.

00:02:24:42 - 00:02:33:04

ELLIE

And so what was it like starting again, having built it up but also

having had a couple of co-founders around you, to it just being you?

How was that transition?

00:02:33:43 - 00:02:51:62

PETE

Yeah, it was really tough. Matt is one of the most talented

designers I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Joe is

incredibly smart, so I went from having those kind of two cofounders

to going solo. And then very quickly my wife joined me on

the business. That's when we transformed from being Steadfast

Digital to Steadfast Collective was when she joined and we started

hiring.

00:02:51:86 - 00:03:09:96

PETE

It was incredibly daunting, but I was fortunate enough that I had a

good network around me of other agency owners. I had a vision of

where we wanted to go and I was quite fixed on that. Ultimately, I

wasn't running everything at Britebyte. So then from going to then

running everything at Steadfast was the big jump, but it was

something that I relished and I enjoyed the challenge of.

00:03:10:64 - 00:03:14:93

ELLIE

What was the vision and how close are you to that vision now?

00:03:15:66 - 00:03:39:86

PETE

The original aim of Steadfast Collective was to build an agency that

was small and profitable, and we could take the profits and go and

build IP so we could go to other SAS apps that would eventually make

recurring revenue. That was the plan. It was similar to what Ustwo

did with Mills and Sinx. They had the agency and they had the games

on the side, and then ultimately the games ended up being a massive

part of their business.

00:03:40:32 - 00:04:00:86

PETE

So for me, that's something that I really wanted to do, something I

was really passionate about. And so we focussed on from day one and

we still focussed on 20% of our team's time is focussed on building

out those SAS products, those internal things that ultimately

hopefully become a major part of our revenue stream. The only thing

that's changed for us is that focus on community.

00:04:00:93 - 00:04:16:09

PETE

So over the last couple of years the focus has really shifted to

being we really want to work with people who are focussed on

community and are passionate about that as what they do and we want

to work with those folks. That's been the main change for us over

the last seven, eight years.

00:04:16:77 - 00:04:27:35

ELLIE

So where did that niche come from? The working with communities, had

you had a couple of clients and thought this is the way to go? Was

it that you really enjoyed the passion that lies with community?

What is it about communities that appeal?

00:04:28:11 - 00:04:47:54

PETE

We had just gotten through the first year the pandemic, which hit us

really hard as an agency. As soon as Boris opened his mouth and

mentioned the word lockdown, we had other partners calling us and

just pausing projects, cancelling retainers, all of those good

things. It took a massive toll on mine and the team's mental health,

and it's probably something we don't talk about

00:04:47:54 - 00:05:09:04

PETE

enough as a team, but we all got incredibly burnt out. We picked up

probably too many clients, so we were fortunate. We did pick up new

clients during that early bit of the pandemic, but their deadlines

were unbelievably short and we were picking up clients we probably

shouldn't have done just because we thought that's how we're going

to survive. I found myself incredibly unwell: I couldn't open my

inbox, I couldn't wake up without feeling nauseous.

00:05:09:06 - 00:05:30:41

PETE

It was a really tough period, and eventually through family, through

my colleagues and through a fair chunk of counselling and therapy, I

got back to normal but we got to the end of that year, me and my

wife and the management team sat down and we said: "Let's not do

this again. What do we really want from this business?" And that was

the first time we decided this isn't an agency just for the sake of

being an agency.

00:05:30:70 - 00:05:50:31

PETE

This is a lifestyle business and in the agency world, that's almost

a dirty thing to say. The agency is there to serve me and my family,

our team and our clients, and then any overflow from that we want to

funnel into local community projects. That's kind of our map. I drew

this really sketchy circle diagram of how I was going to explain it

to the team.

00:05:50:42 - 00:06:08:92

PETE

We were like: "We should get a designer to redesign it." And we just

stuck with my sketchy iPad drawing. When we said that out loud and

we were like: "OK, what clients do we really love working with?" And

it was the ones that were leading communities. Quite often, they

were female founders who more often than not left their high flying

London jobs during their maternity leave.

00:06:09:09 - 00:06:25:16

PETE

This is a correlation through so many of our clients: Started a

business, it took off during their mat. leave. They stuck with it.

They built communities around what they were doing, and we were

like: "These are the people, these are our people. These are the

ones we love working with and these are the ones we're delivering so

much value to."

00:06:25:70 - 00:06:35:40

PETE

So they're the ones we went after. And that community of smart,

creative folks who are high flying in their jobs but have decided to

start out on their own. That's our crew.

00:06:36:22 - 00:06:37:79

ELLIE

Isn't it amazing when you find your people?

00:06:98:12 - 00:06:48:39

PETE

It really helped us focus. I think it brought a lot of stability to

the team because they understood what was going on. It brought a lot

of stability to me, a new business because I knew who we were

talking to. It's very reassuring.

00:06:49:12 - 00:06:56:03

ELLIE

So since you made that decision and thought: "Sod it, this is who we

want to work with, this is who we are." How has the business

developed since then?

00:06:56:88 - 00:07:17:95

PETE

We have grown. We have hired, we've had, like all agencies, highs

and lows. Since we made that decision, we've had our record month

for sales, for turnover, same with quarter. And we are now at a

place of stability and clarity. So we know where we're going. We

know how we can get there. We have the runway to do it.

00:07:18:40 - 00:07:31:52

PETE

I think the next step is how do we build out that community further

to better serve those people? So it's given us the confidence to

really make big steps into that decision. I go all in and I think

that's carried us quite far.

00:07:32:53 - 00:07:34:83

ELLIE

And have started your own community.

00:07:35:47 - 00:07:58:23

PETE

So we launched Summit because I think we've been working on for a

little while now. And essentially Summit is a space for unexpected

entrepreneurs to come together and learn because what we were

finding was folk that are building these incredible communities are

so good at what they do, whether it's cross stitch, whether it's a

community of solicitors, whatever it is, they're so good at that

thing.

00:07:58:63 - 00:08:15:89

PETE

But what they sometimes lack is those digital skills to approach an

agency. So Summit was designed originally as a video series, and

then we expanded out to a whole community hub, which we're launching

later this year, and we want to just help those people make good

decisions. Like: "Here's the six red flags you should know about

when you're appointing an agency.

00:08:16:28 - 00:08:33:31

PETE

If they're asking for like a 90% deposit, maybe that's a red flag.

If they're not going to give you a contract, red flag." And we're

just trying to help people make those decisions. If they've never

done it before, because working in the digital world, if everything

you do is normally tactile and tangible, which often is in

communities, can be really daunting.

00:08:33:31 - 00:08:46:85

PETE

So we wanted to build out these guides and build that community. And

for us, the next step would be starting to run in-person events,

those sorts of things. But it's a little out of my comfort zone.

It's quite daunting. I've never been a community manager, so it's

quite different to my normal day to day.

00:08:47:76 - 00:08:55:57

ELLIE

I'm here for any tips, mate. So what do you think has really helped

you on your agency you found a journey.

00:08:56:24 - 00:09:29:86

PETE

I have been completely shameless in asking people for help, so we

are fortunate in Southampton, which is where I'm from. There is a

really good network of agencies down here, large and small, along

with I've got some really good agency friends who I met through The

Agency Collective, whether that's network agencies or small

independents like us. And I will pester them and I will ask them

questions and I will book in regular time with them because they've

been there, they've done that and being able just to understand:

"Oh, okay, I've got this pretty scary letter just come through the

post."

00:09:30:09 - 00:09:49:82

PETE

"It doesn't matter. We get them all the time." "When should we think

about moving from our local accountant to a proper firm?" All of

those decisions. There's that classic thing in the agency world,

which is feast or famine. You have real highs and lows and knowing

that the next sale will come at some point is really reassuring to

someone who is still fairly young in agency world.

00:09:50:71 - 00:09:55:69

ELLIE

What is next for you guys? What are you looking at for the future,

for the next couple of years for you guys?

00:09:56:28 - 00:10:17:44

PETE

I think for us we are making strides to becoming more autonomous and

more profitable and hopefully those things go hand in hand. So for

the first time this year since the business started, I took a

holiday where I didn't take my laptop. That was a massive step for

us. We've hired a great ops manager who handles everything clientside,

everything post contract being signed is his responsibility.

00:10:17:72 - 00:10:45:30

PETE

That was a big step. And we're remote anyway as a team. Being able

to step further and further back from the business is feeling really

good and it's feeling like we're heading towards something which is

sustainable rather than being relient on myself and Rachel, which is

really good. And that leads onto: The more profitable we can be as

an agency, the more efficient we can be, the more focus we can put

on Summit and the other ventures we're trying to launch, which will

ultimately then turn into recurring revenue, which will then

eventually turn into us having less pressure on the agency side.

00:10:45:87 - 00:11:02:37

PETE

I don't imagine running an agency into retirement. I imagine running

a software business: A mix of agency and that recurring revenue. So

for us it's how do we get that blend just so there's not all of our

eggs in one basket and there's less pressure on the entire business.

So that's some of our next steps.

00:11:03:85 - 00:11:13:92

ELLIE

I think that's really savvy. What was it that you had put in place

that allowed you to finally take a proper holiday? Is it something

that agency founders really struggle with: That switching off.

00:11:14:61 - 00:11:29:89

PETE

We put in better processes, so that I wasn't the bottleneck. I'm

only the bottleneck now for a couple of things, and it's generally

new business and I was chatting to Matt from Platypus, recently.

He's taken a sabbatical over summer, which is just incredible. And

he was like: "I put the processes in place that anybody can do what

they need to do.

00:11:30:13 - 00:11:47:54

PETE

And the business should carry on when I'm not there." And that

really inspired me. We've got to make better strides towards: "OK,

well, if our technical director isn't there, what happens? Can the

world still move on?" We just really put an emphasis on putting

those autonomous processes in place so everyone has the ability to

pretty much do anything.

00:11:49:10 - 00:11:55:48

ELLIE

What is it that you are most excited about? Is there a project that

you are feeling all tingly and excited to get on with?

00:11:56:06 - 00:12:05:19

PETE

So we are currently working a lot with the National Caravan Council

so I know more about motorhomes, motor vehicles and anything in the

leisure vehicle sector than I should do.

00:12:05:33 - 00:12:06:86

ELLIE

[CHUCKLES] Does it make you want to get one?

00:12:07:39 - 00:12:31:34

PETE

Oh, I would love a camper van. That would be lovely. We are doing

some really great work for them on their internal tooling, but also

their public facing stuff. That's such a great sweet spot for us

because they're literally the UK's trade body for leisure vehicles

they represent that community vibe so much. We are excited that they

are slightly larger organisation that we then get to do more

experimental and more ambitious projects with.

00:12:31:55 - 00:12:46:37

PETE

So that's a beautiful project that we get to work on. We're working

on a few of them and that's probably our highest traffic platform

that we work on. So of all the projects we work on, it has the most

money flowing through it and it probably has the most users using

it. So it's a nice one to work on.

00:12:46:67 - 00:12:53:53

PETE

The team loved seeing the direct impact of when it went live - they

instantly saw improvements on what was happening before, so that was

a really fun one.

00:12:54:32 - 00:13:02:16

ELLIE

Well, that sounds amazing. Just to finish up Pete, what would be

your number one bit of advice that you would pass on to other agency

owners?

00:13:02:87 - 00:13:23:05

PETE

If you are a creative or a technical and you want to keep doing

that, find somebody else to do the other stuff. If you want to run

the agency, eventually you're going to have to drop being a creative

or being a technical person. I don't think you can grow your agency

to be super sustainable, while being on production, while working

day to day on the projects.

00:13:23:05 - 00:13:39:52

PETE

You can when you're small, you have to when you're small, but as you

grow? And if you are super passionate like: "I want to be working on

creative stuff every day." That's great. Become the creative person

and hire someone else to run the day to day. Hire an MD, let them

worry about cash flow and forecasting and talking to solicitors

because they will love that.

00:13:39:62 - 00:13:58:35

PETE

But if that's not your jam, then you focus on your thing. And I just

think they're very separate roles and quite often I see lots of

small agency owners and I feel like they're drowning because they've

never managed to step out of the day to day production of what

they're doing. It's really limiting for them because they just don't

have enough hours in the day to get that stuff done and recruit,

talk to their accountants and all that stuff.

00:13:58:39 - 00:13:59:73

PETE

So that would be my advice.

00:14:00:12 - 00:14:03:34

ELLIE

That's bloody great advice, Pete! Thanks so much. You've been

wonderful.

00:14:04:08 - 00:14:05:59

PETE

Thanks, Ellie. Lovely to chat to you.

00:14:06:44 - 00:14:16:91

Narrator

Thanks so much for listening. Please don't forget to

subscribe. Stay in touch. And if you like what you hear, find out more at the agencycollective.co.uk