We were joined by Anthony Chapman and Paul Crump, founders of Fellow Studio, who talked us through how they started Fellow after leaving their old job, knowing that they could do it better. Find out about their growth, their culture and how they, as creatives grapple with sales!
[00:00:00] Cathy: Welcome to the Agency Collective Tales with Ellie Hale. Our podcast where we talk to our brilliant agency owners about all things agency life.
[00:00:10] Ellie Hale: Today on the podcast, I am joined by Anthony and Paul from Fellow. Thank you so much for coming on down and having a chat with me. First off, guys, what I would really like to learn about is just how you guys got started in agency land and how you guys started working together to form your own agency?
[00:00:28] Anthony Chapman: We're a real cliche story, to be honest. Both Paul and I went to the same university together. We went to our University of Arts London. We met at the London College of Communication. We were actually on the same course, the graphic and media design course.
[00:00:40] We both came to it via our own avenues, but both had a real passion and interest in graphic design. It was quite funny because we both were on the graphic and media design course, but at the time, they split it into pathways and both Paul and I chose the illustration pathway. Even though we are hardcore graphic designers, it's typography and layout.
[00:00:57] Because we heard on the grape vine, that was with the tutors that would push you the most. So that gives you an insight into the young men Paul and I were, when we first met. We met on a course, chosen because the teachers were hard. But we both then went into agency land, your typical, started in the lower positions, started working for mixture of small agencies and then making our way into global agencies.
[00:01:17] Both climbing the ranks. We've always both been agency guys. We like that lifestyle. We enjoy the creativity, the what comes with that, jump in between projects and all that, and working with others to create something new. But we, in that real cliche form, after working in it for quite a while, we've just got a bit tired of being cogs in the machine.
[00:01:34] I think we both got pretty high up and we're just dealing with briefs as they came in managing the team through to completion. Then you just got another one and it just didn't feel the right way. So both of us would often meet up to have a drink on a Friday, be like, "Oh, it shouldn't be like this. There should be more personable relationships with the clients.
[00:01:49] How can we change that relationship between creatives and clients? And one day we just had too many drinks and decided actually this is the way to do it. Outside of that, we had done a few projects together. We'd almost drive our creative processes together. And we were just really confident that actually we knew what that new relationship between clients and creatives could look like, and that was really the impetus.
[00:02:11] Pretty much next day, walking in, handed him my notice, quitting a job, starting an agency. Paul was sitting down couple of months later, Paul, and being like at the desk, going right, we're doing it.
[00:02:21] Ellie Hale: How brilliant. So how did it develop from there? How have you learned to be an agency leader? An agency founder?
[00:02:28] Paul Crump: From my point of view, I think a lot of it is learning on the tools.
[00:02:31] Big test for us was, we started really six months before Covid. So for us it was a bit of a baptism by fire. We saw it as we can get through Covid, there's not much else that could stop us really from making sure we envisage what our dream of the studio would be. I think in terms of becoming agency founders, We've come to realise what it is that we're actually looking to drive as an agency for the clients that we work with, and that is essentially just champion creativity within brand and making sure that brand actually holds the creativity element at the forefront of what they do.
[00:03:04] Anthony Chapman: I think we are quite lucky, cause we're both friends. Paul and I have known each other now for about. 13 years. It's really good to build an agency on that friendship and equal passion for what we do. And we really just wanted to champion the value of strategic creativity in business. We both really believe that branding is a powerful tool for businesses.
[00:03:21] It's not just a nice to have aesthetic exercise. We really wanted to expand the possibilities for businesses using strategic creativity. And I think cause we've both been pretty pure to that cause. There's no real egos between me and Paul and I think that's cause we're friends. We're just here to do great work and prove that value really, and I think that has been steering us the whole time and really drives the culture here at Fellow.
[00:03:41] Ellie Hale: So have you found that friendship has always been a positive? Have there been moments of conflict where the friendship and the business don't necessarily align?
[00:03:50] Anthony Chapman: Quite lucky actually, Paul and I, quite ying and yang, and ironic that you're wearing white Paul and I'm wearing black of this moment as I say that statement.
[00:03:57] But if we're honest, we really lucked out. We compliment each other. One of our friends described it quite well, is that if Anthony sees design as a verb, Pulls these design as a noun, and that's quite nice Between us, Paul is very detailed oriented, so he's really leading that creative vision and Paul knows just what agencies are doing, what work at any moment.
[00:04:17] Our senior designer loves to test Paul be like, do you know if you did that? And Paul's like, yeah, those guys did that last year. I've always been interested in problem solving. So the more strategic side. So for me, an agency's always represented a bit of a design challenge. It's what's the machine, what are the parts, how do you make processes that enable people to do their best?
[00:04:34] So we've been quite lucky. If I look for that overarching system, Paul will then double check it. Points out all it's flaws. No he doesn't. He's just more granular. So we've got that micro and macro. We're just lucky, really. There's been times where we've had our little... but because we're friends, you know, friends are "Sod off!" And then that's it.
[00:04:51] And then it's done because we still hang out. We go surfing together. We actually only live about 20 minutes apart. Rather embarrassingly both of our girlfriends have the same name. They're both called Steph. They also hang out, so it just works.
[00:05:03] Ellie Hale: Sounds bloody great, too good to be true.
[00:05:06] How have you built and scaled your agency? So it starts off just the two of you. How many are you up to now with your team?
[00:05:12] Anthony Chapman: So up to about six with the team at the moment, and looking to grow. But we just looked at how we can best service our clients, what is it our skill sets that we best offer, and then just look that as a vertical, what's involved in that whole process to deliver a great result.
[00:05:24] Okay, cool. What are the roles we need? And that's how we've pretty much built the team. We have just built it around service. Very early on, first hire we made was our senior project manager, cause that was becoming very obvious that two creatives probably need someone to hold down the thought when it comes to the client relations and the processes and the communication.
[00:05:42] And then from there, we just built out by the work, didn't we pull that hiring design, looking into strategy. We've got a little graph that pretty much has our better calls of service. As we grow, we're just trying to hire those roles so we can in-house it where possible and just have that skillset set on tap.
[00:05:58] We're looking at the moment to hire more in the motion. That's coming into a lot of the work we're doing nowadays. We think it could really help list the branding work we're doing. That's bit of our approach. Paul, sorry, I'm chatting loads. I dunno if you wanna add anything.
[00:06:09] Paul Crump: Think in terms of, we've grown as an agency, what was quite nice at the start is Anthony and myself are both designers, so in the early days a lot of the lifting we could do from an perspective and then obviously the more clients we got on board, it allowed us to expand quite organically. We've tried to avoid growing too fast, hiring below the curve, but I think that's worked well in our favour cause it feels less overwhelming rather than trying to firefight the scenarios, it's actually more steady.
[00:06:35] Ellie Hale: From the two of you years ago, having a few drinks going let's start an agency to the seasoned, put together agency founders you are now, what were the key learnings? Was there anything that's blindsided you? Was there anything that came out of nowhere?
[00:06:48] Anthony Chapman: I'm not sure if it blindsided, but obviously covid was very tough for everyone globally. Doesn't need to really be dwelled on. But I think a silver lining for us was it did focus us on our processes, and I don't just mean service and operationally, it was also the new business process and it made us just really try and get it down to a T so that it just comes habitual.
[00:07:08] And probably our key learning was how can we make whatever we do habitual here at the studio? It shouldn't be too taxing for people to understand what they need to do and where we're getting together and how we can all work together. And I think having those solid, these are the steps. This is what we usually do, allows everyone to jump in.
[00:07:23] We digitized all our decks so everyone can write them and contribute. We've got set layouts and it's not like you have to follow it a hundred percent, but it does save so much time if you've just got a foundation and then feel free to tweak. And I think that was a real silver lining of 2020, and I think something that did impact us, we're seeing a lot of benefits now.
[00:07:41] Paul Crump: I think in terms of onboarding the new hires as well.
[00:07:45] Cause we've got these processes in place from that period of time. It allows us to do it very efficiently. So people kick off relatively easy within their first week of them starting. They understand what they're doing and what their roles have required. Being a small team as well, it is more like a community.
[00:08:00] So we're all helping out each other and making sure that the end goal is being seen and achieved.
[00:08:06] Ellie Hale: What would you say for each of you, your favourite thing about owning an agency is versus your most challenging?
[00:08:14] Anthony Chapman: Paul, would you wanna go first? Since I've jumped in every other time?
[00:08:16] Paul Crump: I knew you say that and it's probably cause you're trying to think of something as well.
[00:08:19] I know your tactics! I think the strenuous element of it, I feel is sales. Sales is always gonna be, from a designer point of view, it's something that we have to learn, trial and error. We like to feel that the work that we create attracts interest and other clients to what we do. But I think setting up that sales strategy for us is something that we both, in the initial stages were learning from doing and trying to narrow and what didn't work.
[00:08:44] Let's try something else, and so and so forth. I think the enjoyment part, for me, it was always been an ambition to run my own agency, even from leaving uni, starting out on my own as a freelancer, and then obviously working alongside Anthony at Fellow. It was always that goal that I was aiming to strive for and I think in addition to that, it was just trying to have the ability to do work and work for clients that I felt quite drawn to. Rather than just having a brief put on my desk and being told, you need to work with this particular client at this given time, it allowed for more creative freedoms, I guess.
[00:09:18] Anthony Chapman: For me, favourite part is just seeing it grow in all elements.
[00:09:22] Team grow, the work grow, client list grow. It's just something that just makes me really happy to see collectively, the power. I always say it to everyone, I think people underestimate how much agency they really have in the world. Like actually, a small group of people really putting their mind to things, can really achieve stuff, and that I still to this day find just mesmerising, just putting little things in motion and seeing them turn into results, and that's just amazing.
[00:09:47] Probably that is a real joy that it brings me. And I like seeing everyone happy and growth in all sectors. Not even financial, just the team being happy roles, growing positions, growing people as well as development and getting better and better. It's just cool. It's tough work. I'm not saying it's easy at all, but I think sometimes you can get trapped in a debilitating no I can't mentality and you feel quite boxed in, the world's a lot more wild west.
[00:10:09] I think most people give it credit. The challenging bit sales, cause Paul and I, we're designers at heart. So we've had to learn, cause also when I say sales, I think if I had some advice for anyone starting yet with regards to sales, it's just understanding that sales is listening to somebody else, understanding them, thinking whether anything that you can do to help them. And then explaining that to them.
[00:10:30] Honestly, just listening to them be like, I can actually help them. This is how I can provide value and explaining it. And actually for me, it's just the best form of communication. I think sales as a word, it's a bit of a dirty association, but I think once you understand that it's just listening and seeing if you can genuinely help.
[00:10:45] It does become a lot more natural, but it took a long time to learn that. And it still keep you up at night for the sales bits. Probably a bit meh.
[00:10:53] Ellie Hale: Sales is always the bugger in agencies, isn't it? Keeping that pipeline healthy throughout, not just doing it hand to mouth. I think that's the key, isn't it?
[00:11:00] Anthony Chapman: A hundred percent.
[00:11:00] Ellie Hale: So what would you say your top tips to agencies starting out would be? From everything that you've learned over the past few years, what would you say are the things you need to get sorted? The things you must get involved in and be open to.
[00:11:14] Anthony Chapman: One, just create a war chest, have some savings because obviously the financial thing will just be the pressure that everyone starting an agency is just gonna feel.
[00:11:23] So if you can just give yourself a bit of a safety net in terms of money and resource for yourself, you'll probably feel a lot better and it'll really help. It's something that Paul and I discussed that we wish we did cause we just went at it. Pure greed and...
[00:11:33] Paul Crump: Full cold Turkey.
[00:11:35] Anthony Chapman: But otherwise, I would say just really focus on the value that you're trying to bring, because it will help you in everything if you can really understand what is it as a problem that I solve and in what way do I go about solving that?
[00:11:47] What is that value that I'm bringing to my clients or to the world as it was? Then once you've really got that down and you stick to your guns, cause it's really tempting to just be like, oh, maybe I'll do a bit of this. Especially with that financial pressure. But I think if you can really think about that value and then as you go through networking, sales, building, the internal culture with your team, the more you can stick to that very core essence, the stronger you'll be.
[00:12:12] And it's really hard, and it's the hardest thing to keep your flag to that mast and be like, no, this is what I'm doing. But if you keep that in the back of your mind, I think everything else starts to fall in place.
[00:12:20] Cause you use that as your yard stick. It's like, should we do that project well? Is it us? Is it actually what we do? No. Okay. It's tempting, but saying no to it. When you're hiring people, you're like, this is what we're trying to do in the world. Are you on board? So I think that understanding what you do as a value, and as I say in a sense, understand your cell.
[00:12:37] But sell in that sense of listening and helping others.
[00:12:40] Paul Crump: I think in addition to that as well is if you are starting an agency and previously were freelancing with a few clients that you can take with you on that journey as a starting block, I think that's always beneficial as well. Rather than going cold Turkey and trying to find new clients from scratch, that would help with the initial few months of starting the agency, have taken a few of those stresses away knowing that you've still got some form of repetitive work coming through the door.
[00:13:05] Ellie Hale: Really handy hints. And finally, what is coming up for you guys? What are you super excited about?
[00:13:11] Anthony Chapman: Lots of things. It is on our December hit list to cliche designer thing, redo the website, but we've got some new work that we're really proud to get up and just showcase the world. It's been a really busy year for the team.
[00:13:23] We've been really fortunate that we picked up a couple awards along the way, and I think it's continuing that level. We've got some great relationships with our clients, so it's end of financial year for us at the moment. So we've also been having some of those talks with the clients about next year's budgets and that, and it's just always rewarding to see them start having those honest conversations with you just cause they value what you do in your input.
[00:13:41] So I think for us, just growth more great work. That sounds really cliche, but that's what's coming up some great exciting stuff. And maybe a new website if we can get our stuff in gear to make it look nice, but at least the work will be on.
[00:13:54] Paul Crump: I'll fit into that as well, we started the back end of this year, our co-founded series, being co-founders ourselves, we thought it'd be quite interesting to understand the dynamics of other co-founders, whether that be sisters, sister-in-laws, in some cases.
[00:14:10] Friends, family members of other creatives and from other brands for that matter as well to understand issues from one and the agency. And we are looking to release that information at the start of next year as well.
[00:14:22] Hopefully in line with the website, a little bit of sharing there from our peers as well.
[00:14:26] Anthony Chapman: That'd be great.
[00:14:27] Ellie Hale: That's brilliant. Thank you so much. Time has absolutely flown talking to you.
[00:14:31] Cathy: Thanks so much for listening. Please don't forget to subscribe. Stay in touch, and if you like what you hear, find out more@theagencycollective.co.uk.